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metallian suggested I make this a full entry, so I've decided to take his advice. Basically he asked me to elaborate on the differences I saw between anime and gaming conventions. My reply was:

Sure. Now, this is probably not as great a divide at the smaller gaming convention level as it is at the Origins/GenCon level, but it seems to me it's still there.

At gaming conventions, there are two main drives for attendance: buying stuff (less so at the smaller ones) and gaming. Mostly gaming. At anime cons, the drives for attendance are a) finding out more about anime, b) seeing more anime, and c) partying and celebrating anime, whether through cosplay, J-pop, fan fiction discussions, buying manga and DVDs, etc.

Gleaning this wholly from my experiences, it seems that the anime-con attendees are more diverse (in age, gender, ethnic background, and sexuality), more willing to publically embrace that diversity, more socially inclined (I sat in on a GREAT panel entitled "Sex in Fancom" that discussed the finer points of social cues, getting laid, and what not, specifically at conventions), and really less inhibited about the stuff they love.

Their hobby/obsession invites participation, though costuming, writing, film, music, general discussion, art, etc. Game conventions seem more focused: they're about gaming, but in a very consumer-oriented way. It's all about what's coming out, how you play with it, what are these companies doing, etc. It's rarely about new stuff the fans are doing with the game, new art they're drawing for it, new costumes they've made to dress up like a character in the game, new adventures they're writing, etc. Part of this is undoutedly because it's a lot harder to get a grasp on something so nebulous as opposed to the art-based visual medium of anime, but it's there nonetheless.

I mean, the panel selection is a good example of the differences. They had life drawing workshops, media arts workshops, writing workshops, stuff on getting professionally published and working with editors, voice acting workshops, etc. All very much participation-oriented. I sat on two writing/editing panels, one about the game industry specifically, one about just general writing life habits. Both were far better attended than any similar panel I've been to at Origins or GenCon. The rooms were roughly 75% full for both, if not more.

Another example: A-Kon had an arcade brought in. I don't even want to think about how much money the DDR machines alone brought in. They had a whole section set up for Lazer Tag. They have a whole computer gaming center as well, but I don't think it got nearly as much play as the video games and Lazer Tag did. They had more traditional gaming areas too, but most people wanted to get out and actively do stuff. The LARPS were very well attended, probably more than the regular gaming from appearances.

Also, while there were a few non-bathers, the number of people exhibiting less-than-welcoming hygiene were pretty few. Con Stank was only really present in the elevators, which were terribly overworked (typically with 12-14 people in one at any given time) and had no climate control or ventilation inside them. Most of the con attendees I saw (and had to ride in an elevator with) were within a healthy weight range and took care with their appearance, even if they weren't cosplaying. I mean, picture trying to fit 12-14 of your average gaming-con attendees into an average size elevator, for one. It'd be a rare thing.

You guys have any opinions on the matter? I'd be interested in hearing them.

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I've been hearing the same kind of report from others I trust, and I'm really intrigued. I'm not just sure how one could promote more of it in gaming, but it'd be cool if there were a good way to do it. I'm so much in favor of just plain having fun.

Well, I think a change in the programming to include more interactive things would help. The lady who ran the sex in fandom panel is a friend of mine and an old hand at GenCon, etc. I'm trying to talk her into taking the panel to Indy for next year. It's invaluable for anyone who is shy or uncertain how to interact with their preferred gender. Heck, I even learned stuff. There were people coming up afterwards to ask advice and thank her for explaining things they'd never understood before.

Yeah, anime fandom seems to be a lot bigger and less stigmatized than gaming fandom, so perhaps we could learn a few lessons from that group. There's certainly a decent amount of crossover as it is.

As you can imagine, I've been to a few anime cons in my time with GOO. I've noticed the exact same things that Michelle noticed. The primary reason, in my opinion, is that gamers often want to deny that they are geeks and can be reserved about their hobby. Anime fans revel in it. They participate at their cons. They intereact at their cons. It is a social event to share their hobby with others who also enjoy the hobby.

The frustrating thing is that it creates a cycle of "they have fun because people participate so they participate because it's fun." The frustrating part? How does one create that cycle at a gaming con? I have several theories, some of which I've talked with Peter about (and will probably discuss in greater detail with him at GenCon), but the key is to get people actively partoicipating. Not just gaming - that isn't enough participation.

There needs to be things like a masquerade that draws the majority of attendees. I don't know of an anime con that doesn't have a masquerade. And they regularly draw the majority (if not the vast majority) of attendees. Anime cons have J-Pop dances that are heavily attended. Fan video presentations (mix video footage and music into their own video) that are heavily attended. They are con events that draw people to the show. They are con events that people make every effort to attend. They are con events that people have fun at, with everyone else at the con.

Gaming cons need things like that. Gamers need to embrace their fandom and revel in it. They need to have fun. That's what gaming is all about, after all - having fun. Anime fans have figured that out. Gamers need to be taught that lesson...

I actually have some thoughts on that as well. Going to A-Kon (and working at it as a staff member as well as a panelist) has given me some ideas. Maybe we can talk about it sometime so you can throw more things at Atkison and see if his head explodes over it or not. :)

Well, I can say that from my point of view, while some gamers pride themselves on being ‘inclusive’ types, there is a major under representation of gay fandom in gaming related cons. I’ve attended quite a few cons and there are almost never events or panels that embrace my segment of the gaming population.

Which is kind of sad, because I know that I’m not the only gay gamer who will throw money at the feet of a company that seeks my patronage. I don’t even play much White Wolf, but they get my money for actually having LGBT characters in their games.

I’d travel well out of my way to attend a gaming con with a GLBT friendly atmosphere. However, I’m pretty sure it doesn’t exist.

This is another reason I’m sorry I’ve missed the anime boat. I really wouldn’t mind going to a con where the participants are not mostly overweight guys with shower-phobias who are hell bent for leather to tell me about their Drow dominatrix and her magical whip of stripping +3.

(sigh)

If only I could break my ‘but it is a CARTOON!’ prejudice….

I really wouldn’t mind going to a con where the participants are not mostly overweight guys with shower-phobias who are hell bent for leather to tell me about their Drow dominatrix and her magical whip of stripping +3.

While I can't contribute anything to the points Anaka has raised on account on not really being in the 'I go to Cons' group of gamers, I have been to enough to recognise the people you are refering to. Thank you for creating the mental image of the average gaming con-patron so aptly that it makes me laugh coffee through my nose and all over my desk. :oD

I think one of the things that contributes to that openness is the presence of yaoi and its sister genre, of which I can't remember the name. When you've got whole sections devoted to guy-on-guy or girl-on-girl action that are considered not only hot, but normal expressions of the genre, you can't really be bitchy if gay or lesbian individuals show up and let it all hang out either.

I mean, there was a cute little lithe guy wandering around in a midriff-baring costume top and low, low pants (who could pull off both looks) and a sign on his chest declaring himself "the Yaoi Fairy." It doesn't get a lot more open than that.

And the thing about the "it's a cartoon" prejudice? Most of the people there know absolutely it's just a cartoon. Just like people who enjoy comics, they follow the storyline and like the character development and just appreciate the art involved (which can sometimes be stunning).

To address another point, I think one of the reasons things aren't more open at gaming cons is that sexuality is denied wholesale. Games aren't supposed to have sex in them. Hell, gamers aren't really supposed to have sex. No one ever goes to a gaming convention with the hope of getting laid, except for people who tend to be doomed to fail. No one ever addresses that. And now that more and more women are entering the gaming scene as a whole (and convention scene in specific), it's becoming more difficult for the hetero group to keep that under wraps. We talk about not becoming stalkers, but we don't talk about healthy romantic communication beyond that. I think something similar applies to the gay and lesbian contingent -- any sort of sexuality is frowned upon, as a threat to the group as a whole.

I think that honestly, gaming as a whole would grow exponentially if we could find a way to bring it out of our parents' basements and rec rooms and into a little bit more of an adult atmosphere. I don't believe we need to add sex to everything, but rather to acknowledge it and make room for it to grow, especially when we all get together.

Has anyone complemented you on being a very wise person lately? 'Cause if not, you are overdue.

I absolutely agree with your point here. And I think that a lot of it has to do not only with fans but also gaming companies and their marketing strategies. I mean, honestly, other than the idiot-bait cheesecake covers of some remarkably bad d20 products there isn't much sexuality in RPGs at all.

I'd go as far as to say there isn't any adult sexual behavior represented that I can think of, offhand. Even those characters who have a defined sex life (like say some of the Aberrant characters) are more like the platonic ideal of a person with a sex life.

I think the only cure is really going to be more people getting their significant others into gaming. It seems to me that it would be harder to get flustered by a hint of sexual activity in the game when the GM was hanging off your headboard screaming 'CRIT BABY! NATURAL FREAKIN' 20!' last night.

...

Or maybe that’s just me.

I think you're right about the need for more sex in games, and I don't mean in the "OMG! Everyone look at Victoria Ash's breasts! OMG! There they go again!"

Without interpersonal relationships then gaming would be v. boring. And you don't get much more interpersonal than sex. Of course... this could just be because I watch too much anime. ^_^

Perhaps this is why more chicks play stuff like Exalted, where the romancey aspect is in all the sidebar fictions. IMHO, "OMG, you're hopelessly in love with the Prince of Town, but he's engaged! And you're not even sure if he likes you! Oh no! He's been kidnapped by a dragon! Now's your chance!" is a little more interesting than standard "Kill kobolds for gold." (embarrassed) OMFG, I'm suck a fucking chick...

I'm suck a fucking chick...

@_@

Ahh crap. I had to typo there, didn't I?

Well, if nothign else, "Suck A Fucking Chick" would make a totally killer band name.

Your last paragraph reminded me that Blue Rose is coming out sometime in the near future. I really, really, REALLY want to see what a game based on McCaffrey/Lackey style fiction will do for the hobby. I mean, it could be a brave new world, where unicorns roam, cats bask in the sun and streams of purest estrogen flow to an amniotic sea!

Ok, maybe not. But it might mean a boom in women gamers in a few years. I don’t know of anyone who thinks of that as a bad thing.

As a side note for Tangency types: If the tent peg meme goes global through the RPG community, I'm going to have A2K brought up on charges
:D

What's Blue Rose? And what's this tent peg thing?

http://www.greenronin.com/cgi-bin/product.cgi?prodid=1701

The first and only RPG I am aware of that is targeting a female player base.

As for tent pegs, I'm not getting into that. I still twitch once in a while, thinking about that thread. ;)

As for the cartoon thing, I don't have a problem with it being drawn. I'm a fan of comics myself. I guess I've just had a problem with just letting go of the idea that all animation=Warner Brothers or Disney styles.

And the fact that I am absolutely certain I am missing 99% of the cultural subtext of any anime I watch. It is frustrating to not understand why certain things happen or what certain frames mean.

I think Hellsing might cure you of that. ^_^ About the time someone shouts "I'm going to cut off your head and fuck you in the eye-hole!" any Disney connections go right out the window. ^_^

Ok well now I am interested in checking out an A-con, now to find on in the Chicago area.

Yours would be Anime Central. There are some good folks in charge of it, from what I've heard. I believe it happened in late May-early June.

Figures

There are seven thousand million anime cons in Chicago. There's one called Anime Reactor that happens in july or august, and I think another one in November, and then one a little later.

I think Chicago has critical mass of anime cons. ^_^ www.fansview.com has a convention schedule up which lists all the anime cons and where and when they are.

Holy shit, there's one in NJ the weekend after next! They have Veronica Taylor and Lisa Ortiz! ACK!

I may be away, though, and in any case need to conserve energy (not to mention money) for Origins. Waah.

You find much the same set of differences at Star Trek conventions as opposed to gaming conventions, though from the sound of it there's even more diversity at anime cons than at Trek events.

As to how to get this inclusiveness and diversity into gaming and gaming cons...I'm sadly at a loss.

To address something GammaHamster said earlier: I know that there are a number of gay writers in gaming, and more than a few GLB signature characters in gaming-related fiction, and it isn't all at White Wolf. I know I've got a transgendered character in some of my fiction, and I might even be able to get hir more out into the world one of these days. But don't give up. :)

I'm so jazzed to see an intelligent discussion pop up about this kinda thing. Nice work, Michelle!

I've never been to a gaming con, but I think one way to liven it up might be to get the anime fans to come. There is a lot of crossover, but there could be more. Lots of anime-style costumers are theater people, and most of the gamers I know who were successful at getting girls in their gaming groups did so by recruiting actresses who were in to fantasy or comic books.

Add things like laser tag and DDR to the gaming con. Stuff where you actually have to move. (But not SCA fighting. I walked by an SCA fighting room once and the cloud of stink sent me crying home to my mom.)

If you stick a costume contest in something, the cosplayers will come. They're a competitive lot. They'll go *anywhere* for a contest. One of the biggest tickets these days is Dragoncon, because the Dawn Look-Alike Contest is hyper-competitive and comes with a $1000 check, so it's like this big brand of "I AM THE BEST AND HOTTEST COSPLAYER THERE IS!" (and no one really thinks cosplay is an art. It's a crafty thing, and everyone knows it is just playing dress up. "Cosplay" just makes it easier to google for.)

I think Cosplay looks like it did some *WEIRD* things to the anime community! Like... it made it hot!! @_@ When I went to my first con like 4 years ago, everyone was like on the lower end of average-looking. But as I look around cosplay.com now, *everyone* is a really attractive chick between the ages of 16 and 21. They're all fit dancers who want to become fashion designers. It's so... weird!! I'm like "OMG, since when did all the cosplayers get hot?!"

Well, poop. I wish we could've done A-Kon last week now. Lord knows I need some form of a new hobby.

Y'know, I need to get you in touch with my other friends down in Houston. You guys would get along really well, I think. I shall find a means of doing so, even if it means hopping down there for a weekend.

Cool!

Ample crash space if you need it.

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Fandom cons vs Gaming cons

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