An Enlightened Life

[eurydicebound]

You know, I lead a pretty comfortable existence. I'm in a socially aware (for the most part) city that I love, I have intelligent friends who are worthwhile human beings, and I work in an job and industry whose entire purpose is to entertain others and make them happy (well, and make money, but that's a different issue). I have friends of whom I'm very fond, and we have a great deal of mutual respect. All in all, it's a very pleasant life -- almost pleasant enough to forget that there are plenty of assholes out there.

Well, at least until yesterday.

Upon seeing iamnikchick's post, I realized that I had been sitting back waiting for someone else to say something. The ads she mentioned offended me as well, but I was waiting for someone else to comment. After kicking myself for a coward, I went to the boards, saw the three threads already in progress, and proceeded to not only offer Nicole my support in her request for an end to that particular advertising tactic, but also to let people know that the ads did offend me and that I would like to see them changed. I also posted in the main thread on the issue, the one I knew the advertiser was reading and in which he had requested comment if anyone was offended. The resulting flurry of posts probably added half again to my post count there.

In the 24 hours since in those threads, women who object to the use of objectifying images to sell items in banner ads have been sideways accused of being prudes, man-haters, and ugly/insecure about their looks on those boards -- not by the advertiser, although his response proves he utterly does not get why this is an issue, but by the members of the forum "rising to the defense" of said publisher. I was even the recipient of a personal attack under the guise of "analysis," something that's happened to me... oh, never, really, in the course of my time on message boards. I've literally never seen anything like it.

It's easy to forget sometimes... to think the bad old days are past, and that most of the fight for equality and respect is won. It's easy to believe that everyone thinks as you and your friends do. To believe that because you have a safe haven, everyone else does as well. As small as the stakes were here, it was enough to shake me out of my complacency a bit and remind me that there's always more to be done.

As it is, I'm pretty disillusioned with ENWorld right now. The mods took no action to address the concerns (except to be happy we weren't complaining to them, because that would be censorship), worried more about the effective volume of the discussion than the topics being discussed. It became clear that the opinions of the female board members were not something that would be seriously considered or listened to, and that makes me sad. The d20 community as a whole... well, I wish I could say I believed it was only an issue among a select few. I am seriously considering removing ENWorld from my list of sites that I visit based on this experience. Granted, my post count there has never been high, but I visited daily and contributed where I could, given industry status and general interest. It's a site I would have recommended to other women looking for information about d20 gaming. Not anymore.

And, as a footnote, I've never had problems like this on RPGnet. There's been issues regarding sexism among the forum population and there have been complaints from time to time, but the administration there has always made it clear that they felt those concerns were in their province and that they were willing to deal with it. They have female mods. On the whole, they are approachable when there's a sensitive issue. The "volume" can be a lot louder there and the discussions tend to run a bit rougher, but it isn't a boys club and I'm grateful for that. Ironic, isn't it?

Comments

[themoocow.livejournal.com]

This isn't about sex.

Well, I have to disagree. The book isn't about sex, but by "sex sells" I mean that "sex sells other stuff". Hot babes in budweiser commercials sell more budweiser. In theory at least, and it must be true because budweiser tastes like shit.

Alternatively, if you wish to determine what would offend you, I'm sure I could photoshop up an equivalent bovine image and you can see what you think.

Eh, I'm generally not offended by things that don't involve death and suffering.

Boycotts do make a statement, but are rarely effective.

Yes and no. Companies do things, especially marketing things, for only one reason - money. If you demonstrate that the marketing technique is ineffective, or perhaps even counter productive, they might change.

As for ENworld, all you can really do is pick up and leave. When people aren't doing illegal things, the only power you have is the worth of yourself. So does ENworld care if you stop coming? What about Nik's Chick? How about all the other women?

If the answer is no, unfortuantly you're just wasting your time. Perhaps I'm too cynical, but people only change when they have something to lose.

[anaka.livejournal.com]

Well, I have to disagree. The book isn't about sex, but by "sex sells" I mean that "sex sells other stuff". Hot babes in budweiser commercials sell more budweiser. In theory at least, and it must be true because budweiser tastes like shit.

No no. My particular issue isn't about sex. We're off to a grand start, aren't we? It's not that sex or the use of sexy images necessarily offend me. It's just... I really object to people in the industry I work in, in a place I'm supposed to be welcome, deciding that it's okay take the image of a woman and reduce it to a thing -- not a person, but some bit of sexual innuendo that'll get a guy to click through. If it were a workplace, it would be sexual harassment -- and since it is my workplace, in a way, it makes me uncomfortable. It's very possible to use ads that show sexy women as women, as characters, as potential customers. It's possible to use sex and yet not squick out your female customers -- but that assumes that you recognize that women could be and are your customers, and thus are worth your time. I don't take offence easily -- and really, offended might be an incorrect term for what I feel. Pissed off is far closer, followed by faintly horrified and "uncomfortable." However, the request for feedback in question indicated that if the ads offened anyone, he'd take them down. Therefore, it translates closely enough into "offended." But regardless, it doesn't happen easily.

Eh, I'm generally not offended by things that don't involve death and suffering.
That was a joke! It involved a cow! How could you miss that?

Yes and no. Companies do things, especially marketing things, for only one reason - money. If you demonstrate that the marketing technique is ineffective, or perhaps even counter productive, they might change.

As for ENworld, all you can really do is pick up and leave. When people aren't doing illegal things, the only power you have is the worth of yourself. So does ENworld care if you stop coming? What about Nik's Chick? How about all the other women?

True. I was thinking of "boycott" as "organized effort to avoid using a sertain product or service." And the quick answer to the question is "no." Or rather, I think they'd care if Nicole and Pramas stopped showing up, as Green Ronin is a staple of the d20 world. ENWorld, though, is not interested particularly in doing anything more than make sure no one curses or gets too excitable during discussions. They would not miss me whatsoever.

[themoocow.livejournal.com]

and reduce it to a thing -- not a person, but some bit of sexual innuendo that'll get a guy to click through.

Oh my. Well now, you're talking about taking on society as a whole. You can't logically expect the gaming community to be any better then society as a whole, and frankly I would expect it to be less given the higher concentration of socially inept little boys.

Disclaimer: Not saying it's right, just that this is the way it is. Try to change it by all means, just don't stress out over it.

-- but that assumes that you recognize that women could be and are your customers, and thus are worth your time.

Is it worth their time? It's obvious that they're not really interested in sinking money into actually developing quality marketing strategies. I doubt they're actually investing any money in "marketing", so I'd question that it would be worth their time. Not saying that women don't game, nor that women don't buy products. But would their sales actually increase more then the cost to develop marketing strategies targeted at women?

ENWorld, though, is not interested particularly in doing anything more than make sure no one curses or gets too excitable during discussions.

Then I suggest you not get upset about it. Not that I'm telling you to "shut up and get over it" per sey, but if they don't care, what can you do about it? If you can't actually do anything about it, then sitting around being mad about it just hurts you.

I say write them off as ass monkeys, and just plan to poison their drink if you ever get a chance. ;)

[anaka.livejournal.com]

And yet there are places where it is better, so it's not a global phenomenon. Just because some people are complete assholes doesn't mean you can't ask them to rein in their behavior in public.

As to marketing strategies, I'm not convinced it would actually cost them anything more, other than the time required to think about it and give a shit. It's really sad/funny in a way, because the industry complains daily about how they have to increase the market and get more buyers. Yet when you look at the demographics, they're ignoring a growing segment of the market -- or worse, excluding them. There are ways to appeal to both and advertisers have been using them for years. I mean, putting pics of sexy women kicking butt would do it. Putting a pic of a cute gamer girl and a blurb saying she likes it would do it. Then you have Sex + treating as a person = cha-ching! Given that gamer girls aren't nearly so scarce as they once were, you'd think a publisher could find someone willing to pose for a picture.

Well, the upset happened when I thought I could do something about it. As it was, I and others did do something -- and then dealt with the fallout from that, which pissed me off further. At this point it's not about the publisher or the ads, as that situation has been resolved. It is about whether or not I feel comfortable continuing to spend time there, given the sheer amount of crazed vitriol from members of the users and the lack of any meaningful response from the admins in the face of it. Granted, I can work up to mad again if necessary, but mostly at this point it's just... a whole lot of disappointment, really.

The "write off as ass monkeys" direction is pretty much the way it's going to be. It just makes me sad that it ended up going there.

[themoocow.livejournal.com]

As to marketing strategies, I'm not convinced it would actually cost them anything more

Extra work always costs more, but now we're getting off onto a marketing/economics tangent.

It's really sad/funny in a way, because the industry complains daily about how they have to increase the market and get more buyers.

Has anyone thought about putting out quality products? I mean that SR4 thing those FanPro folks put out was utter crap. ;)

a whole lot of disappointment, really.

*wuffles*

The "write off as ass monkeys" direction is pretty much the way it's going to be.

Aww.... come on, you know you want to poison them. ;)